In which I learn that propaganda works
After I made it clear in a blog post that I support Kamala Harris for president, my neighbor texted me saying we are on opposite sides of the political spectrum and did I want to talk about it? She is part of an organization called Braver Angels whose mission is to bring Americans together to “bridge the partisan divide and strengthen our democratic republic.”
Well, yeah. I’d love to understand why anyone is planning to vote for a criminal misogynist racist incompetent ignorant vindictive idiot. I truly do want to understand.
We met at a local café where I asked her to lay out her thoughts.
We have much in common. We are about the same age (75). She has campaigned for social justice, and protested the Vietnam war. She was a student at SF State during the 1968 student and faculty strike. She voted against Hillary in 2016 because she was pro-war and Trump said he would end wars. Then she voted again for Trump in 2020.
She tells me she is a Quaker
Me: Do you go to quaker meetings? Are there Quakers who consider themselves Christian nationalists?
Yes, she has gone to meetings in many places. There are Quakers who want to walk a more middle line.
Where do you get your news?
Mostly from citizen journalists. People who report from the street. She mentions Tucker Carlson and other right-wing commentators.
She likes Vivek Ramaswamy. She says he went to Springfield Ohio to bring people together.
Why do you think he went there? What is he running for–a cabinet position?
He wanted to find out what is really going on.
He’s supporting Trump. How can he pretend to be nonpartisan?
He says they brought in too many immigrants.
The Haitians are legal immigrants.
No. they have “temporary protected status.” That’s different. They don’t all have jobs. Some of them hang out on the street.
Do you agree with trump’s plan to deport all immigrants?
There needs to be more oversight. We need to stop the rapists and felons. Send them back.
Trump is a convicted rapist. Should we send him back?
Social security. Trump wants to stop taxing it.
Yeah that’s what he says but the republicans have been saying for years they want to abolish it.
What about Kamala’s economic plans? (A republican talking point.)
You are treating trump like a regular candidate instead of a crazy guy who can’t string a sentence together and who promotes violence.
What do I think about RFK?
I liked him when he was an environmental lawyer. Now I think he’s lost his mind.
He only wanted people to have a choice about vaccination.
What about the republicans who would take away women’s vote? Who want to return to slavery?
She hasn’t heard much about them but knows about Mark Robinson in NC.
What about project 2025?
Trump is not involved with that.
You know that JD Vance, his VP candidate, wrote the introduction and the others involved were almost all on Trump’s staff?
She didn’t know that. It’s the Heritage Foundation she says.
We talked respectfully about many other issues. After an hour I have to go. I’m getting a little sick. We agree that we hate war. I shake her hand. She hugs me. She says see we do have something in common.
She tells me I should listen to Vivek. I tell her she should read and listen to different media. I send her a youtube clip from Trae Crowder the Liberal Redneck. Love that guy.
I still feel profoundly disturbed. We did not bridge the partisan divide nor strengthen the republic. For years the rest of us have been asking why any sane person could still support a con man like trump. My theory is that it’s the fault of the right wing media’s lies. And one thing this meeting has done is confirm my theory. Now I understand.
Propaganda works!
tradeswomn musings 
Brava for engaging with her. It’s truly amazing to hear how misled folks like her can be. I think I would like to try such a conversation too, but we need to arm ourselves for conversations like yours with documents showing such info as all the Trump administration personnel who are coming out against him, scientific journals and scientists, economists saying his plans are nuts, etc. Yes, propaganda definitely works. 😖
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Brava for engaging with her. It’s truly amazing to hear how misled folks like her can be. I think I would like to try such a conversation too, but we need to arm ourselves for conversations like yours with documents showing such info as all the Trump administration personnel who are coming out against him, scientific journals and scientists, economists saying his plans are nuts, etc. Yes, propaganda definitely works. 😖
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I don’t think it’s necessary to arm ourselved with facts because trumpers don’t respond to facts. But I figure talking cant hurt.
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so, a “quaker” is supporting a rapist, liar, coward, cheat, fraud, adulterer, thief, etc. what a horrible human being.
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Molly, my apologies. I’ve tried twice to log in and once logged in, have lost both posts. I’m just going to copy it here and hope that’s ok.
Molly,thanks for laying out your conversation with your Trumper neighbor like this. Iam bewildered with you. I’ve asked my Trump voting relatives (a sister and herhusband and another brother-in-law) to explain why given the two presidential choicesthey still choose the felon. It’s beyond my comprehension when they admitTrump’s unfavorable qualities and yet, still will vote for him, and say Harriswould be a disaster.
Theydon’t trust The Washington Post or Heather Cox Richardson or Democrats forbeing competent or trustworthy. One BIL pointed out that the mayor ofSpringfield is renting his properties to Haitians and has self-conflictinginterests in doing so. WTF? What about Trump’s real estate profits?
Theother BIL is a PhD in Religion and Literature with a passion for Israel and forunderstanding antisemitism. He directed me to Trump’s insightful statement inan interview with Greg Gutfeld (who I can’t stomach) I’ll quote his email to mein full (my apologies, how does one address this stuff? I think I’d do betterto not engage and just work on writing postcards, phone-banking and gettingalready left leaning voters to vote!)
“Now,you ask me about Trump. Oh my. Let me say from the start, I am not a big Trumpfan, but I was certainly less of a fan of Hillary, and of Joe, and of Kamala.And, while I am not a big fan of Trump — personally I was hoping someone elsewould emerge as the Republican candidate or, alternatively, some third partycandidate would energize everyone — I have come to resent the totally unfaircharacterizations of Trump, always from the Management Class and always in onedirection. You used one of them. I do not see any evidence of “cognitivechallenges.” I’ve watched him speak off the cuff a lot, and though I’m not afan of his rhetorical style, one cannot go on for upwards of two hours unlessyou are cognitively “with it.” Biden is clearly gone and of diminishedcapacity. I’ve had concerns about Trump’s cognition, which is one reason Iwanted someone younger running in his place, but I’ve seen no evidence ofcognitive decline. I’ve seen highly edited videos of him making a series ofgaffs, but they are always highly edited. Anyone who speaks as much publicly asTrump does is bound to make gaffs. But that doesn’t always translate tocognitive decline. As for Trump’s rants, yes he does rant too much. But Trumpsaid something very interesting in Georgia tonight. He was talking about GregGutfeld, who at first had disdain for Trump, but then saw that Trump did apretty darn good job as President. Trump said tonight that he really didn’tlike Gutfeld at first, because Gutfeld said some bad things about him. He went onto say he tends not to like people who don’t like him. “I know it’s childish,”he said. “I guess it’s a character flaw.” That is the kind of self-deprecatingself-reflection that I appreciate. Trump likes Gutfeld very much now. In fact,Trump was on Gutfeld’s late night show recently for the entire hour. It’s acomedy show on current events, and Trump was witty, and quick, far fromcognitively challenged. There are those who claim Trump is a racist, or afascist, or any number of other character faults on the Progressive list ofbadness. I don’t see it. During his Presidency, he did not display fascist orracist tendencies. He did not “destroy Democracy.” He did not sic the JusticeDept. on Hillary the way Biden has appeared to have done with all the lawfareagainst Trump. I’ve learned some other stories about Trump. The fact they arenot advertised says something. Jesse Jackson used to be a big fan of Trump,before Trump went into politics. Apparently, several black entrepreneurscomplained to Jackson that they cannot get start-up loans from banks to start abusiness. They were told to make an appointment and go see Trump. Trump wouldhear them out, and if he thought they had a well founded plan, he fronted themthe money as a loan. Those who then were able to start a business later took acheck to Trump to repay the loan. Trump would then tear up that check, and tellthe new businessmen to go and run their businesses. Does that sound like aracist to you? Now, can I vouchsafe that story is true? Of course not. But Ihave no particular reason to doubt it. So when I think about the comingelection, I recall that things were generally good under Trump despite thatRussia, Russia, Russia hoax which circled back onto Hillary and burdenedTrump’s administration for a couple of years. Also, Kamala Harris is still ablank slate to me as she sees to be mimicking Biden’s basement strategy ofavoiding any confrontational meetings with journalists and other media types. Ijust don’t trust her. I saw a very interesting video the other day which givesa warning about Kamala. Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDX5q30V_-E So for me, this election is a prettyeasy choice, though it is not the one I had hoped to be making. I don’t know ifyou find this at all helpful, or just another instance of your crackpotbrother-in-law. But there you have it.”
SIGH!
Mary Huber Graham, BA, CI, CTR.I.D. Certified InterpreterAmerican Sign Language / English
“Let the beauty we love be what we do…” ~ Rumi
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Mary, thanks for your effort. You are right. Engaging with these folks doesnt work as they continue to believe the lies. We must take care of our own mental health which (I speak for myself) has already suffered from trump and his people. Keep writing postcards. There is scientific evidence that it helps, and the postcard parties are creating supportive communities wherever we are.
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rather notable set of lies, including this one “Also, Kamala Harris is still ablank slate to me as she sees to be mimicking Biden’s basement strategy ofavoiding any confrontational meetings with journalists and other media types.”
yep, making up lies to avoid simply claiming that they want to vote for a rapist.
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I gotta say Mary, this doesnt really help me understand either. Some people just choose to believe rump’s lies and none of the evidence. I had thought humans were logical animals but now I think we are just animals.
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Right-wingers are so brainwashed they can’t think for themselves. Who in their right mind would vote for a convicted felon? They only watch Fox news o some other lying program and don’t know what’s really going on with that idiot. I couldn’t converse with a Trumper and not lose it!
>
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Thank you!
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Well, at least you didn’t slap her. 😀
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haha! cant find the laugh button.
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Not many would engage like you did, especially with a neighbor. Good thing she is a quaker.. Unfortunately, the propaganda theory was supported again. Thanks for good questions…too bad the responses were so lacking in critical thinking.
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She didnt seem to lack critical thinking. we were discussing policy. But that’s what’s so scary. I didnt even ask her about women. How could ANY woman vote fro rump?
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thanks for writing this, Molly.
but mostly, thanks for being a “braver angel” (ugh) and talking with her when she obviously was operating from a “different set of facts”!! OMG THEY LIVE AMONG US
love you!
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Enjoyed this one a lot!
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Evidently, my comment didn’t post. Thanks for the comments everyone. It shows that my conversation with Molly achieved its goal–a respectful discussion without personal attacks and a good hour of listening on both sides. As for the election, both candidates have abrasive parts of their personalities and both have skeletons in their closets. Looking past the people, I am focused on policies. Neither can check all the boxes, but I believe we need to turn things around when it comes to protecting the Bill of Rights, making life more affordable, ending the endless wars, getting tougher on crime, and fixing the immigration process. Be that as it may, I only ask that everyone be willing to respectfully engage with people you disagree with and to listen.
The Quaker Neighbor
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